An Interview with MARILYN PAPPAS: Fiber Artist Stitches in Time

How did your early years shape your role as an artist? At what point in time did you realize that art would be your path?

 Art was my first love from as far back as I can remember. I loved to draw and always wanted to be an artist so, for me, there was no adolescent dilemma about how to spend my life. I wanted to study art at a professional art school and did just that. However, I did not become interested in teaching until I started to work at summer camps while in art school.


You studied Art Education and received a BA and MS in that area. Subsequently you taught Art in public schools and then brought your expertise to college students where you are currently Professor Emeritus at the Massachusetts College of Art and Design. Can you talk about your teaching?

 Looking back at a very long teaching career, 41 years covering virtually every level from kindergarten through graduate studies, I feel extremely fortunate to have experienced those years. While I love being a full time artist now, I feel that the years in academia were continually rich in creativity, inspiration and learning from my students as well as from the actual teaching. My last 20 years of teaching, at MassArt, were particularly rewarding as well as demanding. The level of students was extremely high. I also served as Chair of the 3Dimensional Fine Arts Department for 9 of those years, a challenge and an opportunity to interact with faculty, administrators and students in another way. Perhaps all of these layers of learning gave me discipline, organization and patience – all important qualities for an artist – as well as creativity and a continuing love of art, old and new. I think it is important to note that I always continued working on my own art, through all of these demanding years.


Your work today is based on the technique of laborious and intensive stitching used to generate a complex tonal pictorial effect. What other art techniques did you explore before developing these pieces?

My adult artwork began with woodcuts, moved on through fabric assemblage to collage and papermaking  and finally, as my retirement from teaching approached, I returned to my interest in fabric, stitching and drawing, turning toward my travels, especially to Mediterranian countries and, gradually, to classical sculptures of goddesses. Still powerful, although broken and worn, these images inspire me to interpretations that express their strength, feminism, beauty and vulnerability – universal characteristics that remain important to women today.


In creating unique and intricate stitched art that replicates women in antiquity, how do you approach each project? Do you work from your own initial drawings or reference prints?  On paper first or directly on the linen fabric that you use as your canvas?

I usually choose a sculpture that interests me, often because I have actually seen it and somehow it strikes a chord. From photographs of the sculpture, I make full scale sketches that I often cut out and then I draw the outline on linen. Most of the rest of the drawing is done directly with thread , on the background linen. My recent work, that will be shown in Philadelphia at Snyderman-Works Galleries in October, deals mainly with the colors and patterns that originally covered these sculptures that we see as white marble today. I try to imagine how these bright and often garish colors eroded over time and how the life of the colors and the beauty of the figures kept changing.


You have stated that “I am interested in the beauty of imperfection and the imperfection of beauty” and you also explore this in relation to the concepts of vulnerability, dignity and the ravages of time. These are underlying philosophies behind your art that may be understood as an approach to feminism and social politics. Can you discuss this?

 As a woman who had a career and raised a family at a time when most women were stay at home moms, I experienced all the benefits and drawbacks of a working woman. Feminism grew during those years and while I was not an activist, I was always interested in working toward and supporting the ideals expressed by the feminist movement.


You have received many awards, are in numerous collections, and have shown your work internationally in museums and exhibitions. At 82, what are you still looking to explore with your art?

 At the age of 82 I am grateful to be fit and able to work continuously as an artist. I do not know what will come next, but I do know that I look forward to and expect to keep searching, discovering and developing new ideas that translate into new work.
 

An Interview with ED BING LEE: Never Not Knotting Fiber Art

Photographer: Ken Yanoviak

 

As a child of Chinese immigrants, Ed has taken his craft to the art world. He creates hand knotted small artful objects and the series “Delectable” is a charming and beautifully crafted replication of American junk food.

As a child of Chinese immigrants whose father died young and mother worked in a sewing factory, your roots were humble. You were fortunately recognized for your artistic talent in grade school and later went on to earn two Master Degrees and become a successful fiber artist.  Do you reflect on your achievement and the roads that paved the path to where you are now?

As I look back on the 50 odd years of working in the "arts", the experience has afforded me with much pleasure, some surprises, few disappointments and even regrets.   One regret is that I never took the time to explore a large scale knotted pieces,  a point of view undergoing revision in my current work as well as in future projects.


Your creative experience using knotting began around 1970 while you were teaching off loom techniques. What you say about knotting is that “You can go two-dimensional, three-dimensional, or you can do both at the same time. And there’s no machinery.” Certainly knotting does not require any machinery and it does not require tools either.  Since it is relegated to your hands only, do you treat your hands with special creams, gloves, or exercises to keep them nimble and able to handle all your creative ideas?

I have been fortunate in that I have not experienced any extreme trauma with the use of my hands. I don't have any special routine for their care. Of late I try to minimize any straining motions and have slowed my pace considerably. Mostly, I rest frequently and try to vary hand actions so that I'm not repeating the same motion endlessly.


Is all your work entirely fiber? That is to say, you primarily work with waxed linen, embroidery floss and synthetic ribbons although you have included paper and shoelaces in your Chawan series. Do you often explore using other linear or fibrous elements?

Linen and embroidery floss were the only materials I used when I started knotting. The two dimensional pieces as in the PICNIC series and as in the art history inspired figural pieces were made exclusively in these two materials. The warp was linen and embroidery floss and served to create the pictorial images, all in an effort to simulate a tapestry.

I started using waxed linen in my EARTHCRUST series because it allowed me to incorporate three dimensional projections as in a bas-relief. The structural character of the waxed linen also facilitated the making of free standing sculptural images which I  combined with the richer palette of the embroidery floss, the wellspring of the DELECTABLE series.

The CHAWAN series was a period of learning and experimentation for me.  I started to use new materials: ribbons, shoe laces, costume trimming and paper cords and ribbons. More importantly, I started to use a wider variety of knots and combined materials of different weights and textures within a single piece. To date the CHAWAN was my largest series numbering some fifty items.


In developing your art, you appear to have launched yourself from your knowledge as a painter and skill as a fiber architect. By interpreting the pointillism of Seurat, you created a knotted translation. In your “Delectables” series, your work is an interpretation of popular iconic American foods.  Each one is a series to build upon and consider. Are you currently working on another thematic project?

Currently I'm considering two distinct series. In the works are large sculptural pieces which contain aspects from the DELECTABLE series. The treatment is more abstract. The form, color and texture of the images in the DELECTABLES relied heavily on their actual counterparts. But in the new food series, I'm trying to center my attention on the elements of design and composition.   I would like these new pieces to have a presence as Art independent of their source.

The second series exists mostly in my imagination but I am beginning to see definable outlines. Possibly a series of miniatures combining art historical and contemporary images within a single pictorial format.


In the process of creating a new piece, do you plan for it by rendering sketches? If so, do you include structural elements?

As a preface to this question, the actual making of a knotted object is a long (emphasize long) process. Several months is not out of the question and a few select pieces require a more substantial block of time. My process is to picture the finished piece in my mind; consider the construction (materials, size, color and most importantly, the starting point); followed by visualizations in drawings with appropriate remarks and notations; then start knotting. It is very rare that the completed piece is like what I had imagined. A large part of the cause for rethink and adjustments is precipitated by the fact that all my sculptural pieces are hollow, which affects the design, the type of material and certainly the construction.  A case in point, I like my pieces to be self supporting which may entail reinforcing the walls.

Common practice for most sculptural knotters is to use a supporting form around which they knot. When finished, the support would be completely covered. This practice renders a much smoother and uniform surface.


You were honored to receive the Pew Fellowships in the Arts award, exhibited widely and your art is in esteemed collections. Does this success fuel your creative energy?

This question gave me a pause. All too often achievements are measured as a linear unfolding. as one milestone after another. However I feel the term achievement is bit too formal for me, preferring to think of the different stages as beads of different sizes, significances and magnitude of importance being strung together, representing the whole of my work while continue to I add beads. The following lines by Rudyard Kipling in his poem IF captures my sentiments very succinctly:
     "If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
     And treat those two impostors just the same:…”


You say that “challenge moves my work forward”. You have certainly used challenge to move your life forward; now at 80 what creative challenge lies ahead?

I believe that what I have done in the past is an integral part of what I am doing now.  When starting a new series I seek to present these selfsame "borrowings" in a different light, it is a process of deconstructing and revitalizing my artistic vision.

Another aspect that I would like to see embodied in my work is what has been described by Hanneke Grootenboor  in his RHETORIC OF PERSPECTIVE that Art is capable of presenting complex thoughts that are often contradictory, so Art can represent..."thinking in a way that is superficial and profound, empty and meaningful, playful and serious."

Finally, I would like to have enough work for a solo in my mid 80's.  Is it possible to have it all?



 

An Interview with TOBI ZAUSNER: Extraordinary Painter, Psychologist, Writer

Tobi, you began making art at a very young age. Do you remember some of your first experiences? Your first paintings?

I began making art in earnest when I was about three and a half years old. I don’t remember the pieces of art I produced but what I do remember is the process, the thrill of focusing on something and watching it change before my eyes. Each piece of art was its own world that would emerge as I created it. This wonderful feeling has stayed with me today.

Often exceptional talent generates acclaim. What awards, prizes and other notable distinctions have you received for your art? Which are particularly special to you and why?

Like many people I have won prizes but I think the greatest prize is within. It is the feeling of accomplishment that comes with creating a work of art or writing an article on psychology that I believe communicates its message to others and comes up to a standard that gives me joy. We are all capable of doing something that brings us great satisfaction and this happiness with accomplishment is a prize available to everyone.

Over the years as an artist and then as a psychologist, you became interested in artists who continued to be creative despite difficult obstacles. In your book, When Walls Become Doorways: Creativity and the Transforming Illness, you profile many of these amazing artists. Can you talk about your personal impetus for writing this book and the value for everyone?

The impetus for writing When Walls Become Doorways was my personal experience with major illnesses that became turning points in my life. When I was diagnosed with ovarian cancer in 1989 my doctor did not expect me to survive but I did and my life transformed. After this illness, in addition to being an artist I also became a psychologist. In the 1970’s I was sick for seven years as a result of being poisoned by an insecticide. Yet it was during this period that my mature style of painting emerged and I began to show my work professionally. Having had this happen to me, I became sensitive to the same dynamic in others. In When Walls Become Doorways I feature artists, who have vision problems, hearing loss, cancer, neurological illnesses, and disabling accidents among other conditions, yet all of these artists transformed their work and their lives. What is initially viewed as a tragedy can instead become an opportunity.

You became involved in psychology research in graduate school and then received a doctorate combining art and psychology. How did this happen and what are you investigating?

I actually believe I got a doctorate by accident because I had no concept of getting a PhD when I started graduate school. My intended goal was to get a Masters in art. Then I started taking classes in the psychology department and a whole new way of thinking became available. One course in particular on the psychology of art changed my life and defined my path by combining psychology and art. My work in psychology focuses on the creative process. I have investigated how creativity can be used as a tool for resilience, helping us to bounce back from difficulties, and now I am researching the altered states of consciousness that can occur during times of creativity. These states are not related to any drugs but occur as part of the rapture of creating something new.

To be dedicated as an artist and as a psychologist is very demanding life work. How do you balance that?

Art and psychology balance each other and in doing so they balance me. I have always had a very demanding life and work is the fire that runs through my veins. It is a life force and it is a road that I can never really predict no matter how hard I try. So in response I just keep going.

Now at 70, what are your expectations, visions, dreams?

I want to keep working. Artists die with their boots on and I also have no plans to retire as a psychologist. About expectations - we can expect what we want but what we most often receive is the unexpected and this unexpected result, this unplanned for harvest, this undreamt of situation is often greater, more interesting, more challenging and more transformational than having one’s previously intended plans and dreams come true. It is the dreams you didn’t realize you could dream that take you down paths you never imagined you would be able to travel.

 

 

Disclaimer: Tobi Zausner is my sister.

An Interview with KAFFE FASSETT: The Passionate Art of Coloring our World

Courtesy of STC Craft | A Melanie Falick Book

Photograph by Debbie Patterson

Kaffe Fassett is a world renowned artist and designer who uses color to change the ordinary to the extraordinary. Born in California, he has lived in London for more than 40 years.

At what point did you realize that art was your passion? What did you do before you became successful?

At the age of 4 years old I was given a set of oil paints and an easel, so I guess I must have shown promise - I was always attracted to the visual in life. Before I became successful as a textile artist I concentrated on fine art painting.


Your parents have utilized their creative skills in the restaurant business in California. Were you encouraged creatively at a young age?

My mother was the creative one in our family and she encouraged me always – sending me off to any visiting theatre, or dance group or classic films like The Red Shoes and Olivier’s Henry the 5th.and supplying me with art books.


What prompted your decision at 19 years old to leave Boston Fine Arts where you had a scholarship? At what point in time after that did you choose to live in England and why?

I didn’t get to England until I was 27 but left art school because I felt I could educate myself by drawing and painting everyday and going to exhibitions. I came to England because of a chance meeting with the British author Christopher Isherwood and was encouraged by some worldly friends.

While returning from visiting a Scottish wool mill, you learned to knit on a train from another passenger. Do you sometimes reflect on this serendipitous encounter?

Absolutely - especially since that woman turned out to be the mother of my 4th sister - of course I do!
            

Now with over 36 books in print, are there still more in development?

Always! I design printed fabric to put into quilts, then included in books to show my fans how I use them. Books explain my elaborate visual thinking so will always be part of my life unless, film can do the same job and I have access to a good film-maker.


With your projects spanning Fabric, Knitting, Needlepoint, Patchwork, Painting, Rugs, Mosaics and recently Ribbons, you have traversed categories that are used daily by design sensitive consumers and creative individuals.  Do you manage a library of your own work?

It is difficult to keep track but I do try to keep scrapbooks of my design work and of course, my printed books are a record. I also have a huge collection of source books for inspiration in design.


You have had tremendous international acclaim by being the first living textile artist to having a one person show at the Victoria and Albert Museum to your recent award of the Turner Medal given by the Colour Group in Great Britain. Do you consider that your success is in large part due to your extraordinary sense of color or your design elements that carry colorways so well?

A sharpened colour sense and ways of showing that through design go hand in hand – I am lucky that I get a free hand to develop my books and designs to be able to showcase my ideas. Some people with great ideas and colour sense don’t get that unimpeded chance to prove themselves.


Through your books, workshops, lectures, exhibitions as well as television and radio appearances and your new film on Creative Bug, you have explored media effectively to reach people all over the world. Do you prefer being in the front line with people or being creative in your studio?

I love the stage and audiences, but the energy it takes to present myself is huge and is gathered through many hours of creative work in my studio, or when travelling on tours, in my hotel room quietly working on projects to inspire me. So I love both – but the creative hours are essential.


Given the enormity of your work, even the samples must take a great deal of time. Do you contract people who can follow your prototypes to completion?

Occasionally I hire some help, but my urge to see work develop in my own hands usually wins – designing as I go and years of experience gives me a speed that enables me to do most of my own sampling.


Now in your 70s, are there textile/fiber/art concepts or techniques that you still want to explore?

I am sure there are but I’d like to keep refining what I already do – producing better colours, more exciting forms and patterns etc in knitting, needlepoint, surface pattern and quilts. There is so much more to explore and develop. Perhaps larger scale is where I’d like to go next.
 

An Interview with BETSY HERSHBERG: Creative Explorations in Bead Knitting

Photo by Alexis Xenakis, XRX Books, 2012

 

Betsy’s art is the product of meticulously and artfully combining fibers and beads. A self-declared “left brainer”, she masterfully demonstrates the technical marriage between these elements with knitting and creativity.

I understand that your mother taught you to knit when you were 8 years old. Then fast forward to 2002 when your knitting world changed and you learned to bead knit. What were you doing professionally in those in between adult years?

I’m not sure your blog is long enough for all of my adventures! Just kidding, but I like to say that I reincarnate every ten years or so given how varied my interests are. In chronological order I have worked as the following: a mime, a scuba diving instructor, an actress/singer, a healthcare consultant, a stay-at-home mother (my absolute FAVORITE!), a voiceover artist and now a knitting designer, teacher and author. How’s that for varied?


You have had the wonderful benefit of studying with the upper echelon of famous knitters. Now you are considered to be in the cadre of talented designers. How do you use that knowledge, teaching methodology and your innate visual talent to teach your students?

Although I have never formally studied the art of teaching, I’ve taken note of what seems to work in the classes I’ve most enjoyed. I think good teaching comprises several critical components, including but not limited to the following:
- Strong technical knowledge of your subject matter
- Preparation, preparation, preparation (including the provision of organized written and visual materials for your students)
- A firm belief that everyone in a classroom has something to learn AND something to teach and the commitment to remain open to what students have to teach me.
- An understanding that different people learn in different ways. It’s always important to be prepared to offer students a variety of ways to learn the same lesson until we find the one that best aligns with the way they learn.


You describe yourself as “left brained” which would imply that your thinking emphasis is logical, detail oriented and analytical. Yet you clearly have the capabilities of right brainers who are imaginative, artistic and creative. Can you talk about that?

I could talk about this for days! The simplest explanation I can give you is that most people are right- or left-brained dominant. It’s rarely all one side or the other. Second, I wrote my book, Betsy Beads: Confessions of a Left-brained Knitter because I wanted to explore this. How did I transition from thinking of myself as an excellent knitting technician with no creative potential for the craft to having so many ideas for new work that I now describe my brain as being like an airport runway with new ideas lined up for miles, just waiting for an opportunity to take off?

What I now believe is that left-brained dominant folks like me are often no less creative than those right-brained folks who accept their creativity as a given. What works for me, and I believe can work for others, is simply engaging in a more concrete, organized creative process. The book contains seven short essays that describe the discovery and essence of that process. The projects in the book then illustrate it and offer what I call “what if…?’s, suggestions for taking the original designs in new and exciting directions. I truly believe that anyone who truly wants to be creative and is willing to do the work, can be. Giving yourself permission to BELIEVE that you CAN be creative is often half the battle.


Your beaded knit work is extraordinary and basically singular in availability. Are they all singular pieces or do you ever produce, contract production or consider alternatives for demand of multiple pieces?

I make every single piece I sell so the idea of doing production for large scale retail sale is not possible, nor do I have any interest in doing that. Perhaps selfishly, I want to make only what I want to make, when I want to make it. But in addition to my more costly, one-of-a-kind work, I do have a line of Limited Edition pieces: what I call Slider Bracelets and Bead Ball Necklaces. These are still made to order but simpler and quite affordable, ranging in price from $75 per bead ball to $125 for a bracelet. In the past, I have only sold my work at shows or from my studio showroom by appointment but that is about to change. Sometime in the next few months I will be adding an e-commerce component to my website where people will be able to directly order my Limited Edition work and buy an occasional sale piece of one-of-a-kind work as well as a new line of original pattern designs and accompanying material kits. When the new Studio B Shop site launches, I‘ll announce it on my website and on Ravelry.


You manage many avenues of generating Betsy Hershberg excitement: teaching, pattern making, book writing, kit making and of course your own knit projects. Do you enjoy working with all of these entities?

While I really do enjoy teaching and writing the book was an incredible experience (made possible by the extraordinary publishing team at XRX Books with whom I had the privilege of working), there is no question that imagining and creating new, one-of-a-kind work is my absolute favorite endeavor. The process I use often involves the iterative creation of small, ever-evolving swatches as I shepherd an idea from whatever inspiration is at play to a finished piece. The work is challenging, exciting and yet because it happens in small steps, it never feels scary or overwhelming. Perfect for a somewhat risk-averse, left-brainer like me.
 
At 63, you have achieved tremendous success with your work and your teaching both in person and through your book. Do you have a further vision for yourself? An area yet untapped?

Not really. I much prefer to remain open to whatever life will offer up next. I am never bored! The word does not exist in my vocabulary. Given my past, I have every reason to expect that the next adventure will be as much fun and rewarding as those that I’ve already experienced. I am an eternal optimist, another gift I have “inherited” from my remarkable mother - now a healthy, actively engaged, 87 year old. Whatever awaits, I am confident I’ll find a way to deal with the challenges and celebrate the joys.



 

An Interview with BARBARA HANSELMAN: Claysmith Extraordinaire

                                                    photography by Linda Ann Miller

Barbara creates distinctly beautiful rattles with a keen awareness of its spiritual path in history. She teaches workshops that focus on hand building techniques to build both small and large design elements.

You are immersed in the world of clay now yet you had a previous life about 20 years before which was client driven in interior design. How does it feel to be in your passion mode and also be autonomous? Do you enjoy creating as well as teaching?

I have always been self-employed and somewhat autonomous but it wasn’t until my hands went into clay that I was able to overcome my fear of not having design clients to generate an income.  I soon realized that I could bring much of my interior and graphic design experience to clay but the opportunity to share my new found passion for clay with anyone interested was truly a bonus.  Looking back now it seems that teaching was simply the next logical step.


You have finely honed your hand building techniques to produce exceptional pieces. Do you ever work on the wheel to pursue a structural value that eludes hand building?

I never was drawn to the wheel; the potters I knew who worked on one were more production oriented, churning out mugs, bowls and covered casseroles.  It was never a dream of mine to produce functional pots.   When I became confident as a “Claysmith” (a name of my own invention since I didn’t consider myself a potter) my last thought was to enter the Strictly Functional Pottery National Show in Lancaster.  But when I finally realized the difference between production and function and did enter national venues like SFPN, my clay work was accepted and awarded.  As a result, I don’t feel that forming clay vessels on the wheel has a structural value which eludes hand building. 

Working with clay (whether hand building or throwing) is akin to learning to ride a bike – learn it, forget it, then just do it.  I collected the basic techniques of hand building in a relatively short period of time and had at least ten years worth of clay methodology in books, on tapes and in notebooks before beginning to master any of them and make them my own.  Practice is essential; learning to see and listening to the clay is an art unto itself.   I am reminded of a story about ceramics in college where the assignment was to make ‘the perfect pot’.  Half the class was told to make as many pots as they could, the other half was told to concentrate on just making one ‘perfect’ pot in a six week period.  You know which group ended up making the ‘perfect pots?’ – The group who made as many pots as they could.


Your clay rattles are very special and hold a spiritual presence. Can you talk about that?

Many cultures believe in Healing RATTLES and their capacity to dispel illness & dis¬-ease.  These Rattles are credited with being able to awaken the human spirit, drive out negative energies and center personal focus.  My versions of these Rattles are hand formed and adorned with symbols of wellness; they are shaped to be grasped.  During times of despair, medical treatments or loneliness, the Rattle should be gently shaken to the beat of one’s heart. RATTLES do help us to ground; their sound is powerful & magical, producing an incomparable energy all their own.
All of my Rattles are “birthed” in the same way.  Once the basic shape is formed, I tenderly blow my own CHI (breath of life) inside, sealing the opening quickly closed with pursed lips. 

In developing beads or creating jewelry, the intellectual and artistic process would appear to be different than when you create a pot. For example, beads are individual elements that may be left as a singular piece of art or grouped thoughtfully and artistically as jewelry with/without other components. Do you approach this differently? Do you always plan the outcome?

Answering your last question first, I never plan the outcome of anything when it comes to clay.  I am just along for the ride and although I may suggest a direction or a turn, the clay always has the final say.

I love making Rattles and Beads in Clay because, individually, they have the capacity to become future artifacts from the era in which I live.  They are small and durable; able to remain perfect while much larger icons like clay pots are ravaged by time.  Yet in the present, my clay beads can have the same intrinsic value as a finely cut gemstone, cabochon or pearl which permits each one to ‘cross over’ into the artistic discipline of self adornment.   I just LOVE that!


How has your explorations of post firing surface design (glazes, textures, colors) changed your vision for your work?

Early on in my clay venture, I discovered I could go past the simple rolled out clay slab and make Clay Fabrics from these slabs.  This process allows me to focus on how my pieces will LOOK before I even know what they will be.  Making clay fabrics forced me to consider how different glazes would enhance the various engobes & stains I was applying, whether my engobes or terra sigillata even needed the addition of a glaze to look ‘finished’ and how  combining different clay bodies, textures and engobes at this beginning stage would make dealing with my future bisque-fired pieces a breeze.


Now at 66, what do you still want to achieve with your work in clay?

First I wanted to hand build with clay, eat off its river rock surface and drink from the empty spaces it defines.  I then wanted to hear the sound of clay as it moves to and fro within itself - so I make rattles.  Now I want a total “Clay Shibumi” where I am the adaptable turtle or the Bodhi leaf impressed in the beads’ surface; where I know the power of each single hand-formed bead touching my skin and absorbing my essence.  I want to be what the clay is saying as I wear it and fondle it (the way old Greek men stroke their worry beads).
So I strive to compose with the language of clay… Whether the clay becomes a pot, a rattle or a bead, it is its final ‘function’ which determines the process I use to seal its fate.  I value these processes far more than the physical manifestations I make in clay.  Embracing these processes makes it possible for me to ask “What if” and to build on the awareness of where my venture with clay has taken me.



 

An Interview with JAMES E. BOGLE: ASIAN ART COLLECTOR and HISTORIAN

 

An esteemed collector of Southeast Asian Art, Jim lives" half the year in Thailand. He is the author of the beautiful  book  “Thai & Southeast Asian Painting: 18^th through 20^th Centuries" .  He recently donated a large portion of his collection to a museum in the United States and continues to collect art.

What triggered your interest in Asian art? Were you interested in the arts before being in Thailand?

I first became exposed to Asian art when in Bangkok in 1958 to undertake a city plan for Bangkok and Thonburi with a team of professionals. The art history education I received at the School of Fine Arts, University of Pennsylvania  was solely focused on occidental art; what I saw in Thailand in the late 1950’s and early 1960’s captured me!

I began collecting Southeast Asian paintings and art in 1958.  I enjoyed the spirited portrayals of the Jatakas, the Phra Malai stories and the images of the Lord Buddha which hung on my walls. There was very little English language literature at that time, and while I wasn’t sure what the subject of the paintings were, I was very sure of the pleasure they gave me.
The first paintings I acquired verged on the best of  western abstractness; paintings of vivid color, paintings without the confining  dictates of perspective, shades and shadows; paintings which valued strong composition, and paintings whose main driving force was the story to be told. I was enchanted.

Later assignments in a number of other Asian countries also contributed to my growing interest in Asian art. I collected and became interested in religious Indian and Tibetan art, as well as artifacts. In Saudi Arabia and Egypt I focused on carpets. And then I expanded my collection to include Indian miniatures paintings, and Tibetan Thongas paintings.
Around the late 1990’s I began to acquire Southeast Asian paintings as a priority. A number of these later acquisitions were found in the U.S.A. and Europe; well outside the confines of Southeast Asia.


Were your parents in the arts or collecting?
 
Not really! They were supportive and Dad probably strained himself carrying packages from the local, nearby post office. These were old items. antiques and miscellaneous junk sent  back from Germany purchased by the use of cigarettes when stationed there in the Army,1945-46. (I never smoke when I became aware how additive they were)


You continue to spend much of your time in Thailand. Are you still collecting?

No/Yes! At 86 years old I am in a liquidating mode and over the last few years have sold or disposed of most of what I collected. Occasionally I weaken and buy some items but nothing major. If I find an old, good Thai or Southeast Asian painting I will try and buy it, if the cost is reasonable. The problem is the dealers who know me and my book, think I may know more than I do and suddenly the piece I am interested in is not for sale or the asking price becomes unreasonable.


Your book, Thai and Southeast Asian Painting: 18th Through 20th Century,  is beautiful and an excellent guide to Asian art.  Is there an area of Thai art or depiction that you find particularly compelling?

I always find the older Asian paintings most compelling. 


Recently you donated a large portion of your collection to the Walters Art Museum. Can you talk about that decision? 
 
In 2011 I gave 50 pieces of Southeast paintings to the Walters Art Museum in Baltimore, Maryland.
In 2009 I gave an illustrated talk on Thai Paintings to the ‘Informal Northern Thai Group’. During the question and answer segment at the end of the talk, an older man asked ‘What is going to happen to the paintings?’ I was taken aback by his question. My first reaction was one of slight annoyance and then later I realized it was something that I really hadn’t thought about, but the subject was real and given my age, somewhat pressing.

After my book on Thai paintings was published in 2010. I started to think about the paintings. Then I learned that the collection I had was probably the largest one in private hands in the USA so I decided to try and keep it together by donating the group to a museum.

Dr. Leedom Lefferts helped me with a concern of one of my paintings. He had just finished a consultancy at the Walters Art Museum and told me about the museum. It has a wide ranging, eclectic collection from Greek sarcophagus to Asian art in a relatively small space but all the art is well displayed. The museum also has a large collection of Thai paintings thanks to donors Doris Duke and Alexander Griswold and so I decided to join them.



You continue to write. What are the projects that you are working on now?

I just sent the final draft of my new book to Schiffer Publishing. The working title is Theravāda Buddhist Cosmology and a Cosmology Manuscript.
This book was initiated by the acquisition of a folding Burmese manuscript (parabaik ) from the 19th century, which describes and illustrates the Buddhist Theravāda cosmology.
In working on this effort, I realized that while the Buddhist cosmos has been described in literature, it has not been the subject of much discussion.  While there are great numbers of books on the Buddha, Buddhism and the various aspects of Buddhist practice and thought, there are less than a handful of books in English that focus on the cosmos only a few mention the Hinayana or Mahayana Buddhist cosmos and they do so only peripherally. 

I hope this new book will make understanding of the Hinayana cosmos easier to comprehend.